Mic Drop

White Belts and Plati-Truths (ft. Sebastian Terry, Erin Stafford, and Tucker Bryant)

Episode Summary

In this week’s episode of Mic Drop, we sit down with not one, not two, but three exceptional keynote speakers in a gripping conversation. If you want to hear from the best in the business on creating impact from the stage and moving people from ideas to action, this is for you.

Episode Notes

White Belts and Plati-Truths (ft. Sebastian Terry, Erin Stafford, and Tucker Bryant)

Three speakers, three perspectives, one incredible conversation

OPENING QUOTE:

“And I think that it's important to show people that there is hope, that you are able to be successful and have an incredible career and family, et cetera, and also still be mentally healthy and still be happy. There is a way to do it.”

-Erin Stafford

GUEST BIOS:

Sebastian Terry is a bestselling author, avid surfer, and founder of 100 Things. Originally from Australia, he now travels the world helping people live more purposeful, fulfilling, and really fun lives.

Links:

After marketing roles at MTV, Apple, Nike, Coca-Cola, and American Express, Erin Stafford became a senior executive at one of the largest healthcare companies in the world. Then she smashed into the wall of serious burnout. Next, she set out on a mission to help other driven type A people beat burnout while still unlocking peak performance.

Links:

Tucker Bryant grew up in the UK, then spent a decade in Silicon Valley working at both Google and Stanford. He's a brilliant spoken word poet, bridging the gap between art and business in his unique keynote performances.

Links:

CORE TOPICS + DETAILS:

[10:12] - When Patterns are Broken, New Worlds Emerge

Poetry and impact

After hearing from Tucker about the way he weaves poetry into his keynotes to drive transformation, Josh shares how generally breaking patterns and helping audiences think about things differently is one of the most effective ways to generate real transformation. Sebastian goes on to speak about how he uses humor in a similar way — turning insights into memorable calls to take action in the real world.

[13:16] - Super Fluffy, Ethereal, Woo-Woo, Soft

Erin on being yourself

Erin shares how she’s felt pressure to be a certain way in her presentation — soft, ultra-cheerful, and wellness focused. “That is just not who I am.” Instead, she prefers actionable direction. “What do I need to do today when I go home? Just tell me what the hell I’m supposed to do to get out of burnout?” She wants the tools, and that’s what she brings to her keynotes. There is room for both styles in the keynote world, but it’s all about determining who you will be.

[18:42] - The Trojan Horse

Hiding the profound in the simple

Josh and Tucker speak about how marketing your message matters. If you present your message as being all about work-life balance and personal growth, planners may put you in a “breakout session on the third day of the conference.” But if you can pitch a big-stage concept, then imbue it with powerful and profound messages, you can deliver on the promise of your keynote while also bringing powerful, positive surprises to your audience.

[22:21] - The Individual and the Organization

How to speak to both in your message

Erin shares how she’s found her message of burnout connecting on both an individual level and an organizational level. Finding a message that does both is essential as a keynote speaker. You can’t only speak to people on a personal level, but you also can’t be focused only on the bottom line. Speakers must find a way to deliver their message in a way that its impact is clear — both for individual human beings who want to improve their wellbeing, and for massive enterprises who want to supercharge their organizational success.

[25:39] - What Gets You On the Stage?

Our guests speak on what motivates them

Ask speakers why they do what they do, and you’ll get different answers — but a similar core theme. For Seb, it’s about impact. He speaks about letters he’s received that detail both personal and organizational transformations that genuinely improve people’s lives.

For Tucker, it’s about turning his own mistakes, missteps, and hangups into opportunities to help others grow. When he reflects on opportunities he’s missed in life by sticking to what was comfortable, he sees the opportunity he has to help others break out of their own comfort zones and seize those opportunities.

Finally, Erin shares how passionate she is about helping people find real success, the kind of success that doesn’t show up in net worth or job title. She’s seen amazing leaders who have reached the pinnacles of their careers who are miserable, burnt out, and lost. She believes in showing those people there is hope, that you can be successful and balanced and mentally healthy.

Overall, all three of our guests believe in the power of how words spoken onstage can lead to so much more — not just improving financial outcomes, but improving lives.

RESOURCES:

[2:20] 100 Things, by Sebastian Terry
[39:23] The Type A Trap, by Erin Stafford

Follow Sebastian Terry:

Follow Erin Stafford:

Follow Tucker Bryant:

Follow Josh Linkner:

ABOUT MIC DROP:

Hear from the world’s top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests’ Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter it’s starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.

Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.com

ABOUT THE HOST:

Josh Linkner is a Creative Troublemaker. He believes passionately that all human beings have incredible creative capacity, and he’s on a mission to unlock inventive thinking and creative problem solving to help leaders, individuals, and communities soar.

Josh has been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which sold for a combined value of over $200 million and is the author of four books including the New York Times Bestsellers, Disciplined Dreaming and The Road to Reinvention. He has invested in and/or mentored over 100 startups and is the Founding Partner of Detroit Venture Partners.

Today, Josh serves as Chairman and Co-founder of Platypus Labs, an innovation research, training, and consulting firm. He has twice been named the Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.

Josh is also a passionate Detroiter, the father of four, is a professional-level jazz guitarist, and has a slightly odd obsession with greasy pizza.

Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.com

Episode Transcription

Erin Stafford:

And I think that it's important to show people that there is hope, that you are able to be successful and have an incredible career and family, et cetera, and also still be mentally healthy and still be happy. There is a way to do it.

Josh Linkner:

Hey MicDrop enthusiast, Josh Linkner here. Delighted to be bringing you season two of MicDrop. I love our conversations with speakers and industry leaders alike so we can unpack the industry and we can all perform better. Let's get after it and get better together. Mic Drop is brought to you by Impact Eleven, the most diverse and inclusive community built for training and developing professional speakers to get on bigger stages at higher fees with greater impact, faster.

Maria Cairo:

Mic Drop is brought to you by ImpactEleven, the most diverse and inclusive community built for training and developing professional speakers to get on bigger stages at higher fees with greater impact, faster.

They're not just elevating an industry that we all know and love. They work with thousands of speakers to launch and scale their speaking businesses. Accelerating time to success, earning tens of millions in speaking fees, landing bureau representation, securing book deals, and rising to the top of the field.

To learn more about the ImpactEleven community, schedule a free strategy session today by visiting impacteleven.com/connect. That's impacteleven.com/connect.

Josh Linkner:

On today's episode of Mic Drop, we're trying something new. Instead of sitting down with one exceptional keynote speaker, we get to hang with three. Our gripping conversation focuses on creating impact from the stage, moving people from ideas to action.

My guests today, Sebastian Terry, Erin Stafford and Tucker Bryant have very different backgrounds and messages. Their approaches vary, but they're all committed to elevating audiences and creating significant impact.

Tucker Bryant grew up in the UK and then spent a decade in Silicon Valley, working at both Google and Stanford. He's a brilliant spoken word poet, bridging the gap between art and business in his unique keynote performances.

After marketing roles at MTV, Apple, Nike, Coca-Cola, and American Express, Erin Stafford became a senior executive at one of the largest healthcare companies in the world. She was crushing it on the business front, but then she smashed into the wall of serious burnout. Next, she set out on a mission to help other driven type A people beat burnout while still unlocking peak performance.

Sebastian, Seb, Terry is a bestselling author, avid surfer, and founder of 100 Things. Originally from Australia, he now travels the world, helping people live more purposeful, fulfilling, and really fun lives.

You're going to love today's conversation with three remarkable, heart-centered, top performing people.

All right, Tucker, Seb, Erin, welcome to Mic Drop.

Erin Stafford:

Hello. Hello. Happy to be here.

Tucker Bryant:

Great to see you.

Seb Terry:

Great to be here.

Josh Linkner:

Well, this is going to be such a fun conversation with friends and people that I admire and respect deeply.

Just as our audience is getting to know you a little bit, I'd love for you to give us just a little bit of your own backstory. What led you to this place? What was your calling, that you're now on the stage delivering insights and wisdom and moving the hearts and minds of people around the world?

Erin, why don't we start with you? Just a couple minutes of your backstory and how you got here.

Erin Stafford:

Yeah. So I have spent my entire 25 plus year career working in advertising, media, marketing, communications. So I've spent many different careers speaking in different ways, on panels, at conferences of on niche topics, et cetera, and it was just always something I really enjoyed.

However, I spent the last six years heading up marketing for the largest healthcare staffing company in the country. And as you can imagine, during the pandemic, that was quite an interesting endeavor. We grew really quickly from 4,000 nurses to 50,000 in the span of two years. It was hyper growth, absolute insanity, crazy pressure.

And as one could imagine, I burnt out. And I burnt out really, really bad. And it got me on a journey of studying burnout, of wanting to know more about it, wanting to know how high achievers stay at levels of high performance, peak performance without burning out. And really just spent the last few years now researching burnout and decided to take the leap and start talking about it. And I've been doing this now professionally, full-time for the last year-ish, and I'm loving it, having a blast.

Josh Linkner:

That's awesome. By the way, we'll have to catch up, but just with a CEO of a large bureau, and your name came up. He's like, "Erin Stafford, she's taking off," and just asking about you. So what you're doing is getting noticed and it's very exciting.

Erin Stafford:

Well, thanks to you guys. I mean, I'm a product of ImpactEleven, so thank you.

Josh Linkner:

Seb, how about you? How did you get to this weird point in time, where we're hanging out on Mic Drop?

Seb Terry:

Oh, I have no idea. Well, firstly, I'm grateful to be here. I mean, look, as you said at the top, I sort of have a bit of a interesting backstory, and I accidentally fell into speaking, but I lost a friend, I realized I was very unhappy, so I made a list of things that I hoped would make me smile more. It was a bucket list, and I just dropped everything in my life to pursue it. And then, along the way, quite quickly, it started to get noticed by people and it got turned into books and a show and documentaries, and then I was invited to speak on stages. So I've been doing that for about 12 years.

And fast-forward to how do I get here, onto this wonderful podcast, with you wonderful people. Well, Ben Nemtin, a good friend of all of ours, suggested, "Hey, you should join ImpactEleven," and I did. So although I've been speaking for about 12 years, or whatever it might be, I feel like I've only taken it very seriously, or taken myself seriously for the last year and a half. And that's got me to here, and it's a wonderful moment in time for me personally.

And I think, listening to Erin's story and Tucker, just to hear everyone's story of how we got to this moment, it's so varied, but it's equally super inspiring.

Josh Linkner:

So, we have different paths. And the thing I love about this practice, this business, is that there's no one right route. You don't have to, "Oh, I'm a bestselling author. I climbed Mount Everest. I started a company." We all can get there on our own way, not only in our own backstory, but the way that we approach the craft today.

Tucker, you have a really unusual and very cool backstory. I'd love to hear about you.

Tucker Bryant:

Yeah, I appreciate it. I loved hearing both Erin and Seb's stories as well. So I guess, my story kind of starts ten-ish years ago. I've been in Silicon Valley for the duration of the last decade and got to spend my time around people who are much smarter than me, working at Google, working at Stanford, and seeing people take a really keen interest in driving innovation, driving transformation, but also noticing that a lot of the time in those contexts, people who were driving towards transformations were only finding the spark to do that when things were already kind of in crisis or in a really bad state.

And during the same period of time, while working at these places, I've also been writing and performing poetry professionally. And there was a moment that I realized that the reason poetry has been able to survive over millennia as an art form is because poets are sitting down every day when things aren't necessarily in crisis and finding new ways to use language, ways that might be unconventional, or stretch the possibility of the way their readers have seen the world. And I had a realization that a lot of the tools that poets are using to do this might be able to sort of spark transformation, and the 95% of the times when things are kind of okay in a professional context.

And so, I started developing frameworks when I landed on, it's called the Poet's Keys, and helps leaders kind of unlock doors to change in areas of work that matter most when things aren't necessarily up in flames yet, so that we're more prepared when things are a little bit tougher. And that's led me to ImpactEleven and to these wonderful people that are all on the call here, and I'm very grateful to get to spend the time.

Josh Linkner:

That's awesome. So to a degree, while we have different backstories and different expertise and bodies of work, we're all in the business of transformation. We're all in the business of energizing people and moving them to action. And the cool thing is we're doing it in different ways. Again, there's no one way to do it. I talk a lot about jazz guitar, obviously it's a passion of mine, and business, and we all come at it from a different point.

But maybe Tucker, staying with you, how are you using spoken word poetry, which is not something that would be instinctive, you'd think of at some corporate conference, and you've done such a beautiful job of blending this art form that's not as well known as it should be, by the way, it's a beautiful art form, with key insights that, again, move people to action. How have you bridged that gap and what can we learn from it?

Tucker Bryant:

Yeah, it's a really thoughtful question. So the way that I like to think about this is that the reason that I've fallen in love with poetry is kind of similar to the reason that I have so much faith in speaking as a form of work that can drive impact, which is that when a person reads a poem, even if they hate poetry, if they hear that one line that is musical or vivid or emotionally evocative or provocative in the right way, that line can do work on the person for decades, without them even realizing it necessarily. And then, 10 years later, they remember this one line and realize, "Oh, I've been thinking about that even in sort of sparse moments, and that's been shaping my perspective."

And so, what my goal has kind of been, has been to use spoken word poetry and just poetry as a concept. At sort of thoughtful moments within a keynote, that land a message in just the right way, with just the right language, that might make it more likely that somebody takes these words that they're hearing, take the image they associate with them, and bring them with them, not just when we leave the ballroom, but over the course of the next year or so, and kind of make it hard to forget. So that's kind of the goal when it goes right.

And it's just been really fun to kind of try to find ways to bridge that gap between this form art that a lot of people don't spend a lot of time thinking about and the super important work that the people that we serve are doing every day.

Josh Linkner:

So good. There's a great line in one of my favorite quotes, is that when patterns are broken, new worlds emerge. And you're sort of doing that, because people aren't used to hearing words and rhythm and timing delivered the way you do, and that does it, it breaks the pattern and allows them to think about things differently, which is, it's really cool.

Seb, over to you. I've seen you speak, and I saw you speak at this moment that was just... I mean, I was just beaming with joy at the magic that you delivered on stage. And one of the things that you use really well, in my opinion, is humor. You're very relatable, but you're also very funny. Could you elaborate on that? Do you use humor as a deliberate technique? And how do you think about humor in terms of connecting with the audience, and again, ultimately moving them to action?

Seb Terry:

Well, thank you. Yeah, I appreciate that. Humor, well, I don't think about it. I think we'd all agree, it's just really good to be yourself on stage. And I think even aside from professional speaking, I just think that's something I think about day-to-day, just with how I live. I'm always trying to be myself, and that involves an attempt at humor. Sometimes it hits, sometimes it misses.

And no, I do, I certainly think that one thing I'm learning at this point with speaking through ImpactEleven is you have to be yourself on stage. There's no point in trying to emulate someone else. Or if I tried to stand there and be this very accurate, laser-focused thought leader, who says profound things and audio bites just 100% of the time, it just wouldn't be me. And maybe intellectually it would make sense. But no, I try and use humor, absolutely.

On my bucket list was to do standup comedy, because it petrified me, and I did it, and I just fell in love with that energy, I suppose, of saying something which elicits a reaction. And I think if you can have someone in an audience laugh, to use your word, I think it is relatable. We all want to feel good, we all want to laugh, we want to smile. And I think it sort of drops down the boundaries. It lessens them between people. I heard a quote, I'm awful with quotes, and I never remember who says them or exactly what they are, but it was something like the shortest distance between two people is laughter. And I do like that, so I try and make jokes. I also try and make them topical and about what I'm speaking about. But yeah, always try and start with a joke at least. That's one bit of advice I give people if they're nervous about speaking.

Josh Linkner:

Well, again, back to this notion of we're in the ideas and insights business, but how do you get people to do something with them? There's an old saying that if you're laughing, you're learning. And I think the laughter really, even though it's fun and it's funny and it feels good, that actually is a really important technique in my opinion. I think you do a great job with it. Erin, one of the things I love about you, when we first started a meeting, your deep sense of authenticity, but you're also, I mean this as a deep compliment, not a criticism, you're kind of brash.

You're like, "Yeah, I did it this way and I took this head on," and it just makes me smile ear to ear. Do you think, I mean, it's just who you are, which is cool, but do you sometimes bring that to life in a bigger way to be provocative? Or what are some of the tools that you're using to not just have people hear your words, but to embrace your ideas?

Erin Stafford:

Yeah. I mean, I think a lot along the lines of what Seb was saying, you know, have to be yourself. I am not this super fluffy, ethereal, woo woo, soft, happiness, wellness person. That is just not who I am. We have plenty of people in the community that are like that, and they're rocking it. I immediately think of Jessica, that she just vibes in that world. That's not my vibe. I am a, "What do I need to do today when I go home? Just tell me what the hell I'm supposed to do to get out of burnout." I just want the tools. I definitely bring a lot of that to my talks. I don't go too far down the woo woo because I think a lot of wellness, mental health stuff can go down that. Again, there's a time and a place for everyone, and there are definitely audiences that love it. I'm not saying one's better than the other. That's just not my vibe.

I very much give people a lot of practical tools and takeaways. I talk about a number of different mindset shifts, and then I really give them a toolkit that they can leave with and implement immediately. I think that just speaks to the doer in me, this overachiever, this type A. And if you listen to my talk, I talk a lot about type As. I want to know what I'm supposed to do. If I'm going to be burnt out, how do I get out of it? What's the roadmap? What's the toolkit? How do I action this? I think I put a lot of that to use in my talks, and I think I give people a lot of actionable things that they can take away and put to use immediately.

Josh Linkner:

I'm saying you bring a lot of vulnerability to it. You're not like, "I've got this all figured out, and you don't. Shame on you." You're like, "Listen, I struggled. I had burnout myself." And so I think that because you first did the work on yourself, you did the self-work and self-healing and self growth of transformation, you're not only qualified to share that insight with others, but now we want to hear it from you because you've been through that war yourself.

Erin Stafford:

I'm very open and vulnerable with my burnout journey and all of the different facets of that, which were not pretty. But I also liken it to diet and exercise. I think that's something people really understand. We know that we can't just eat well and exercise on one day and then all of a sudden we're in great shape, or we're healthy for the rest of our lives. No, we have to make good choices every day for the rest of our lives to stay healthy.

I think burnout, preventing and overcoming burnout and sustaining a level of peak performance is the same. We have to make good choices every single day. Conscious choices to put boundaries around our schedules, to have moments of calm, to invest in our mental health, to do all of these different things that keep us mentally healthy. It's not just a like, "Oh, I burnt out and now I'm fine." We got to keep at it. And there are small steps that we have to continue to make day in and day out to stay there.

Josh Linkner:

That's really true. And I think as speakers, it's hard. I mean, that that's a real challenge for speakers. There's always something more to do. You're never off the clock, even though it sounds like, "Oh, you create your own schedule. How flexible. You can always say no," but it's like really? Can you say no? I mean, JP Morgan Chase calls and says, "Hey, we want you to speak to our top thousand leaders and it's full fee, and we're going to put you in the presidential suite." You're probably not going to say no. And so there is an element of, how do you manage burnout and periods of exertion with periods of rest recovery? There's probably a lot to unpack there. But switching over, Seb, I had a question for you.

Often speakers ask me, or they're trying to focus their message. Is it for the individual? Is it for the leaders? Is it for the organization? Is it for all three? Is it for two of the three? There's no right or wrong answer by the way, but I'm curious how you think of that. Is your message, when you're speaking, are you speaking to Jane in the third row or are you speaking to the leaders in the room? Are you speaking to elevate the whole company? I'm curious, number one, who do you think you're primary speaking to? And then number two, how do you weave together so all three of those constituents feel somewhat fulfilled with your message?

Seb Terry:

Such a great question. I think when I first started speaking, 12 years ago and a school said, "Come and chat to our students," and I was like, "Yeah, sure, why not?" I was speaking to the individual and in the crowd, I noticed though that the teachers around the room and the parents who were in the room, they were all listening too. I kind of quite quickly understood that although I'm speaking to the individual, I think it's a message that resonates with the collective. Now I talk about this idea of through identifying our biggest dreams and striving for them, whether you call a bucket list or whatever, if you're able to create a like-minded community where everyone within that community is allowed and given permission to strive for their goals and share their goals and help each other out, I think you are speaking to both.

I think you are speaking to the individuals. I think it's really important that someone in the audience feels as though this message is for me. Wow, I'm going to take this on and I think I could become the spark for my own personal growth. But then I think I sort of zoom out a little bit, as I'm sure we all do here by the way, and speak about the general notion of community and healthy thriving culture. I don't know, in a very loose roundabout way, I think I'm hitting both angles, but I would say probably first through the individual and then I zoom out and say, "Hey, by the way, we're in this together." And if leadership allows this type of behavior to occur in and out of the workplace, then suddenly you're talking about teams and communities, less just the individual. Does that make sense?

Josh Linkner:

It does. And one observation that I've had, because there's the difference between selling speeches and giving speeches. We've talked about this many times, and often a meeting planner is buying for organizational or leadership needs, but once you're there, everyone's delighted for you to touch the hearts and souls of the people in the room. It's not a bait and switch, of course not. You're still going to, if you're hired to talk about six leadership principles from spoken word poetry, of course talker's going to go do that. But when you're there, you can sort of sneak in the personal in a different way.

Sometimes a meeting planner might be reluctant to say, "Oh, if your message is all only about work-life balance for my people, oh, that's a breakout session on the third day of the conference. That's not a main stage keynote." And so I think one thing we need to do as thought leaders to get our message heard is to make sure that it's appetizing enough for the meeting planner in the organization to put you on the big stage in the first place and then sort of use that opportunity to make it really land for the humans in the room. Tucker, how does that land with you, and is that how you're thinking about it?

Tucker Bryant:

Yeah, a hundred percent. The way that I like to think of bringing at least what I do into a keynote environment is sort of, there's almost a Trojan horse element. We would never want to surprise folks or something that they didn't want to get when I enter the room or when any of the speakers enter the room. But we know that sort of insight is what folks want to walk away with, and they want to be able to apply what they're hearing in this session to the work that they do. But oftentimes the best way to get those messages across is by opening the heart. And so by creating this, just like a single moment in which the right kind of emotional resonance has opened up, whatever comes after that moment is set up is exponentially more likely for an audience member to be able to actually take that message on. I think that both you and Seb have hit the nail on the head with that, and it definitely resonates with the approach that I try to follow.

Maria Cairo:

Becoming a keynote speaker is an amazing profession. The top performers earn millions while driving massive impact for audiences around the world. But the quest of speaking glory can be a slow rot with many obstacles that can knock even the best speakers out of the game. If you're serious about growing your speaking business, the seasoned pros at Impact 11 can help. From crafting your ideal positioning to optimizing your marketing effectiveness, to perfecting your expertise and stage skills.

As the only speaker training and development community run by current high level speakers at the top of the field, they'll boost your probability of success and help you get there faster. That's why nearly every major speaker bureau endorses and actively participates in Impact 11. The Impact 11 community provides you unparalleled access to the people, relationships, coaching and accountability that compresses your time to success. To learn more about the Impact 11 community, schedule a free strategy session today by visiting impacteleven.com/connect. That's impact E-L-E-V-E-N.com/connect.

Josh Linkner:

Awesome. Erin, I was just thinking about, same question to you in a slightly different way. Your topic of burnout. Obviously, humans are burnt out, but burnout affects leaders, affects companies. I mean, that's a pervasive issue that's affecting people all up and down that stack. When you're trying to sell a speech, when you're up against a competitor and they're got an opening slot and only one speaker's going to get it. How are you positioning burnout, which is an inherently human topic in a way that it's still addressing organizational needs?

Erin Stafford:

I feel like right now I don't have to make that sale, that sell. I feel like people are coming to me, at least the environment that we're in right now, they're already on board. They're like, "We need someone to talk about burnout. Our people are burnt out, our leaders are burnt out. This is a topic that everybody says they want to learn more about and they want to hear more about. Are you free on Tuesday?" I'm definitely getting a lot of that right now, but I do really make sure that I'm addressing the individual and the whole, and I think so much of what I do is about the individual because addressing these things, we really have to start with us.

Also because I get so vulnerable and share so much of my story, it makes it very personal and I think it makes it very relatable to people because I'm up there talking about really serious, hurtful hard things that I've been through in my life, and I think it gives them permission to say, "Oh, wow. I actually went through something similar as well, or isn't exactly the same, but it still made me have those same feelings." I think it really connects on the personal level.

And then at the end, I sort of tie it all up and say, like Seb was saying, you talk about the personal and you bring it back to the community. I do a very similar thing and say, "Here's how we move forward with this. Here's how you can take this back to your team. Here's a mental health toolkit with eight things that you can use in your life or you can share with your team and this helps the collective blah, blah, blah." Yeah. But one thing that I find that's really interesting is that because I do get so vulnerable and I share so much, and because burnout can be such a personal thing that people aren't really dying to ask questions about in front of an audience. I very rarely get questions in a Q&A. And so now that I've been doing this for a little while, when meeting planners want to do a Q&A, obviously I'm always open to that, but I like to just tell them, "Hey, because what I talk about is so personal, a lot of people do not feel comfortable raising their hand and sharing about their personal problems and struggles and burnout struggles in front of a whole audience." I said, "However, if you have a break afterwards, I can guarantee you they will be a ton of people running up to ask me questions in person. They just don't want to say it in front of everybody." So it's just interesting how that has transpired after doing this for a little while.

Josh Linkner:

Not only is that spot on, it's a great tactic for us to think about. If your subject matter is really good for Q&A or not, to sort of preempt that so there's no disappointment in the audience or [inaudible 00:24:59], it's really smart. So question, and I wouldn't mind going through, touching all three of you with this, the speaking industry, you can make a lot of money, sure. It's kind of a cool lifestyle, sure. There's certainly some self adulation when people are giving you a standing ovation, sure. But I feel like we could all have those needs met elsewhere. We could probably make more money doing something else and have less risk and less ups and downs. It's not the easiest route. It seems easy on the outside, oh, you got to paid all this money for one hour, but it's all the stuff behind the scenes and matching your craft and the research. It's just not the easiest thing. And to me, knowing all three of you personally, not just professionally, I know that you're doing it for reasons beyond those external measures.

My question to you is, again, our subject is how do we use our ideas to help people take action? What's calling you to the stage? What's that driving force that's pulling you into this profession? Not just for the money and the fame and other stuff, but that's really driving you to say, I'm here to make transformation in people's lives. What's calling you to do the work that you're doing? Seb, let's start with you.

Seb Terry:

Well, it's funny you say. I got a Facebook message yesterday from someone who was in the audience of a keynote I gave recently, and they wrote something which I guess I could share a little bit of at least. Her son has recently come out as gay. I say recently, actually, it happened about a year ago. And she's had a lot of trouble expressing that and sharing that with her parents, so his grandparents.

And she went on to say that because of my talk, where I talk about being yourself and opening up authenticity in the things that you do and blah, blah, blah, I'm not here to talk about what I talk about necessarily, but she went on to tell her grandparents or her parents, and the son is now thriving in life because he feels free. And she wrote this really heartfelt message, and I teared up reading it. Actually teared up, I'm not saying that for effect. And in the same day, I got an email from the organizer of that event saying that the talk has helped them change the way that they communicate as teams in a professional level. So it's great that there's professional progression there as well, and I love being able to do that.

But for me, to answer your question, the reason I keep doing it and the reason I wouldn't change it for the world is because it has significant impact on people. I'm very humbled to say that people have not taken their own lives because they have heard me speak on stage. And I'm sure it's the same for all of us here. And you suddenly realize that me sharing a story and a thought and putting together a framework on how to build [inaudible 00:27:39] into your life and the ripple effect that has on people around them, it changes lives and that's why I do it. I don't tell anyone this, but I would do it for free. Thankfully I don't, but that's why I do it.

I honestly don't care about, as you say, the adulation being on a stage, being revered. I'm so happy that with my story, I just found myself on stage. I didn't think that's an interesting industry. That's something I could get paid for. How do I reverse into that? I just am here doing what I do. And so I think the other thing is perspective. Yes, I'm a speaker, but that's just one part of what I do. I do a lot of different things and I'm thankful to have impact in all the things that I do. And it's all related to chasing your dreams.

Josh Linkner:

So good. Tucker, what's pulling your heart to the stage?

Tucker Bryant:

I think Seb put it so beautifully, and to echo and add a little bit more, I think I personally, even in my ripe age of 29, feel like I have missed out on so many opportunities and accumulated so much regret and made so many mistakes by getting really set in my own comforts. And while the work that I'm doing does apply to what we're doing as business leaders, I think it also has an application to how we're living our lives, the way we address the relationships that mean the most to us.

And I think that we're getting on stage in front of sometimes 1,000 CEOs at large companies who are going to be setting the tone and the culture for some of the most influential businesses in the world. And that's a huge responsibility. And I think when you've made the mistakes, you have the regret, et cetera, you want people in that position who do care and are going to treat that opportunity with the kind of gravitas that it deserves. And so having the opportunity to plant a seed and whatever number of people's minds that might lead them in a direction that leads to a more meaningful approach to their business, but also to their lives, is just something that I feel better equipped to do and more urgent in trying to do than the work that I've previously been doing and I wouldn't trade it for the world.

Josh Linkner:

You may be young as a human, but you have the wisdom of the elders. And to say that you felt some pain along the way with regret or whatever else, and now you want to help alleviate that pain for others and help them avoid it, that's super cool. Love that. Erin, what's driving you to do this crazy profession?

Erin Stafford:

Gosh, there's so many different things. I think Seb and Tucker both summed it up really well. But I think in terms of what I talk about, there are so many people who are incredibly successful in this world, but who are absolutely fricking miserable and who are struggling. And sometimes people have great physical health and they're like a fricking Adonis and they're in amazing shape, but mentally they're so messed up and they're unhappy and they're struggling. Or you've all these amazing leaders who are just killing it in their careers, but they're struggling. And I don't think that we talk about it enough now. At least it is starting to be talked about more, but for so long it hasn't been talked about. And I think it's something that's important to discuss. And I think that it's important to show people that there is hope, that you are able to be successful and have an incredible career and family, et cetera, and also still be mentally healthy and still be happy. There is a way to do it.

And so being able to give people hope, giving people some tools, giving people some encouragement to be able to not only be successful, but to be healthy at the same time is really fun for me. And like Seb was saying, the emails that you get after a talk, sometimes you just have no idea... Well, most of the time you have no idea who you're touching. And sometimes you could have an audience that is crickets chirping and you're like, "Wow, I bombed that one. They didn't like anything I said." But then you get these amazing emails and it's like, oh, the reason they were so quiet is because your message actually was so needed and cutting through what they needed to hear that they just didn't know how to respond. And so you can get these emails that show you that, yeah, your words matter and you're making a difference. And I think that's just an incredible feeling to know that you're on stage for 60 minutes and you're somehow changing someone's life.

Seb Terry:

Yeah. As you're speaking and listening to Tucker too, and Josh, I think this is the same for maybe every speaker, but I think it's also very helpful to be on stage for us. I think it's a good mirror. And here's something, I'm full transparency here. I was on stage recently talking about leadership in the workplace, and I just felt... I don't know what it was, I felt something and something was off. And I thought about it for a few days afterwards, and I just felt on a personal level that I hadn't showed up or even led my own life in a way that I was particularly happy with, just for a brief period. And I felt that from being on stage and I'm addressing it now. So I think as much as it's great to have an impact, and of course it is, it's also really important for us, it's a really interesting indicator for us as a speaker to just realize we're at, if we are going in the right direction. And I think it's, just to be really honest, I think that's part of it for me at least.

Josh Linkner:

Yeah, that's so true. The best way to learn stuff is to become a teacher of it. And if you're out there talking about a subject matter and going really deep in it, you're learning and growing along with your audience, of course. And you're right, it's not either or, one's not bad or good. They're both. That's the beauty of it. It's really funny. In many religions, the act of charity is a good thing, philanthropy and such, but the holiest one of always is anonymous. Here's a bunch of money, so I can have my name on the building, that's not quite as much as giving anonymously.

And I think as speakers, we do get some feedback, thankfully, which is nice. You get those texts or emails or voicemails. I've saved them. It warms your heart. You know you're making a difference. It's awesome. But for the vast majority of people that we touch, we don't get that feedback. And it is kind of like that giving anonymously. I think if your heart's really in it, you're doing it for a calling, not a paycheck, ironically, you'll make more money separately, but more importantly, you'll make a bigger impact. So good.

So speaking of making an impact, there's a lot of people listening right now that may be speaking longer than each of you have been on the stage, or shorter, doesn't matter the duration. But we can all learn from each other. I learned from people that have spoken a 10th of the number of times I have as much as my elders and such, but you, I'm sure, have all learned some hard lessons along the way. And what's a little nugget of wisdom? Talking, again, the theme of moving people to action, that you'd like to share with our speaker community that they might be able to take back and put into action. And whether it's a big, giant theoretical idea, a really tactical one, what's a little wisdom bomb that you'd be able to drop on our listeners that might help them in their career?

Seb Terry:

I want Tucker to speak so I can take notes.

Tucker Bryant:

Well, I was actually going to share something that has been conveyed to me through a number of avenues of the ImpactEleven community. Josh, you've shared this. Eric has shared this, Eric Termuende. And it's funny, I'm starting to use the word platitrude to describe a platitude that is a platitude, but is also really true and takes a long time to master and is important to have some way to convey. And what I think the real insight was that Eric had shared with me is that when I get on stage early on at least, and I'm still pretty early, I felt like I really had to nail every single word and memorize to the breath and just look like the most artistically inclined, maybe the smartest person in the room, all these things, because I wanted to protect some form of my own ego. And I think what Eric pushed me to start thinking about was that being the perfect version of you isn't the way to drive impact. Being a more relatable version of yourself and being a more authentic version of yourself is when people actually have an easier time reaching across that gap between the stage and the audience and taking what you're putting in front of them and making it their own. And so I think the way that he framed it was, don't try to be the smartest person in the room or the most poetic or whatever. Just try to be the most relatable. And when that becomes the goal, I think it becomes a lot easier to let yourself actually be yourself and find value in what you're able to do by making that connection with the audience.

Josh Linkner:

Love that. Maybe it's a plot of truth. I like this a lot.

Tucker Bryant:

Plot of truth. Yes. You keep iterating on it.

Josh Linkner:

Seb, how are you feeling about that?

Seb Terry:

I think one thing I've certainly learned is you have to invest in yourself. Just trying to think about if a speaker's listening, I think what I've learned myself is you have to invest in yourself. I used to think it's good enough that I have a good story and I'm good on stage. That's enough and it's not... you have to invest in yourself, which again, not to make a cheesy throwaway to how good Impact 11 is, but that is one way that I have personally taken upon myself to invest in what I do. So I think that's one thing. I think another is this idea of partnership. And I think as a speaker, that partnership is both with other speakers. I think it's partnership with agents and bureaus, and I think it's based again on my own story, which was I used to think that I could just sit on one side on the peripheries of the speaking world and just be this gun for hire who was really good and people can find me.

It's not that. You've got to really show up. I was exclusive with a bureau for a number of years. I'm no longer, but I have a great relationship with them now, and they booked me more because at the time I thought, "Why aren't they getting me more work?" And I've realized retrospectively through listening to you, Josh, and all the other content at Impact 11, that you have to be a good partner. You have to provide them with the things that they need to better sell you. And even beyond that or beneath that, if you will, it's important to build good relationships. It really is, I have to say. And I think everyone on the call will say the same thing that some of my closest friends are now from the speaking industry, whether they're speakers or whether they're agents. And to get a text from someone say, "Hey, I saw you were in Chicago. You've been doing a lot of travel lately. How are you feeling? You all right?"

And Eric's the perfect example Tucker. What an awesome... I'm actually catching up with him for dinner tonight. We just build these friendships and if I get a text from an agent who's had a couple of wines at a conference, just saying, "Hey, someone just mentioned your name and we had a good laugh about you," it means the world. So it's not just a job, it's a community. It's a way of being really, and I've just learned that you have to show up with the idea that you are building friendships. You're not just going in and out and taking what you need.

Josh Linkner:

And not to... Yes, 100%. By the way, how much more fun is that? Let's say you could be successful in both ways. Cart number one, you're successful, go out and transactional. Cart number two is you're doing it with others that you care about and building relationships and friendships all day every day. It's cart number two. No question about it. Erin, what are you thinking about? What's that little gem that you'd like to share with others?

Erin Stafford:

Well, I think as somebody who recently started out doing this full-time, I'd always been speaking on the side as part of my day job, but only in the last few years have I really taken this seriously as a full-time thing. I think for so long, a lot like Tucker was saying, I was trying to cram as much as I possibly could in every keynote to make sure that I was delivering as much value as I possibly could in each keynote. And every section had a story, a statistic and anecdote, a quote of this, of that. There was way too much in my keynote. And it was like I was winded trying to get through all of it. And instead of really taking people on a journey, I was really just trying to get through my keynote. And after doing that a few times, I was like, "Okay, I am missing the point. I'm just trying to get through all these slides and get through all my points in 60 minutes instead of really making sure that I'm taking these people on a journey, that the things are landing, that they have time to digest."

And so I actually ended up taking my keynote from five modules to three, and now it feels so much better. And what's great is that I actually have eight different modules built out. And now in my discovery calls, depending on what that client needs, I can kind of pick what three of those eight modules that I have built out are going to be best for their audience. So I'm not reinventing the wheel each time, but I'm creating what feels like a custom keynote for them. And yeah, I'll tweak some stats and swap out a photo and maybe change a story, but I'm not reinventing the wheel.

But I'm also not cramming so much in every single section that I'm just worried about getting through all the content. I feel like it lands better now. And I mean, we've talked about this so many times on different community things that when you're starting out, you feel like you have to tell them everything you possibly know on a subject, and you don't have to tell them every single thing. They can buy your book, they can talk to you afterwards.

So that's really helpful. And then I just echo being a student, a constant student. I mean, I am on every single community call, every Impact Hour. I am like, "If I'm paying to be a part of this community, I'm going to get every single thing I can out of it." I really make the effort to connect with other speakers to stay in touch with them. And it's fun. My friends and my husband, they have no fricking idea what I do. They don't get it. And so it's fun to be a part of a community that get what you do and that are also as passionate and as excited about it as I am because there's nothing better. It's so fun.

Josh Linkner:

There's so many points of wisdom there Erin, simplicity and all that, but what I'll just call out is this notion of always being a student. It reminds me of that guest the founder of... I'll probably get this wrong, but the founder of, I think Judo insisted that he'd be buried in his white belt, which meant that he wasn't a master, but always a student. And I certainly try to, I'm always learning, and I think all of us are. And that is really what makes it cool. And it's like you never master music or you never... like you're always practicing and working. And this is another area of creative expression where we can do the same.

And I think it's a good place to bring our conversation home. We're in the business of using words and ideas to help people take action and to improve the world and make an impact. And I think all three of you are different, but beautiful examples of that happening in real time where your heart's in the right place, you're working on your own craft and your own self, and of course in service of others. So I want to thank you for joining me on Mic Drop. Thanks for making such a big impact in the world and continuing to elevate our craft and our friendships. So Erin, Seb, and Tucker, thank you for joining me on Mic Drop.

Seb Terry:

Thank you.

Tucker Bryant:

Thank you all.

Erin Stafford:

Thanks for having us.

Josh Linkner:

What a fun conversation. We heard three very different approaches to driving impact from three really special humans. A few key things struck me. Number one, a common thread was deep authenticity. When we're trying to perform on stage or show up as someone else, we fall flat. On the other hand, when we bring our own authentic vulnerable selves to the stage, audiences get the most value, and we get to create the most impact. From spoken word poetry to surfing, to burnout, our own unique experiences bring our messages to life.

Number two, the notion of learning from our own keynote messages is a really cool concept. Yes, we're teachers, but we're also learners. Sometimes our personal growth comes as a direct result of helping others. Let's all stay white belts and continue to learn and grow. And number three, a great keynote is not just entertainment. Instead, it's a catalyst for action. Seb, Tucker, and Erin each bring specific tactics and frameworks to their audiences so that the real value of their work transcends just an upbeat speech. It's all about driving change and giving people the tools they need to take action. I hope you had as much fun as I did sitting down with these three really exceptional thought leaders. I'm grateful for the gifts they shared with us here today and the gifts they continue to share with the world. Tucker, Erin, and Seb, thank you for helping us all get better. And thanks for making today's episode of Mic Drop a conversation for the ages.

Thanks so much for joining me on another episode of Mic Drop. Don't forget to subscribe on Apple, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. If you love the show, please share it with your friends and don't forget to give us a five star review. For show transcripts and show notes, visit micdroppodcast.com. I'm your host, Josh Linkner. Thanks so much for listening, and here's to your next mic drop moment.